The Traitors' Rob Cesternino On Donna Kelce's Big Move, His Biggest Suspect, And One Thing He's Glad Didn't Make The Edit

It's been over 20 years since "Survivor" fan-favorite Rob Cesternino graced our TV screens after cementing himself in "The Amazon" as a legend of the game. Even Jeff Probst, himself, has gone on record calling Cesternino one of the smartest minds to never win. Needless to say, fans' hype for his return to reality TV as part of "The Traitors" Season 4 was off the charts. 

And then he became the second faithful murdered at the hands of the traitors, breaking fans' hearts everywhere. (Just check Tik-Tok for proof.)

His loyal fanbase has been riled up ever since his June casting announcement, and it's easy to see why. After appearing on 2004's "Survivor: All-Stars," Cesternino went on to create a podcasting empire in 2010 under the "Rob Has a Podcast" ("RHAP") banner, where he provides strategic insight and commentary on some of your reality TV favorites like "Survivor," "Big Brother," "The Traitors," and "The Amazing Race." The "RHAP" community is not only tightly knit, but fosters an inclusive space for passionate fans to savor and critically discuss their favorite shows through forums, live shows, Patreon exclusives, and social media. Given his background and history, Cesternino was the perfect "gamer" to enter Alan Cumming's castle and play such a deceptive and cutthroat game like "The Traitors." So what went wrong? 

Below, TVLine talks to the podcasting king about his spot-on instinct, being murdered in plain sight, and who's currently playing the best game in the castle.

TVLINE | So you correctly sussed out that there was a potential murder in plain sight happening on the night of your murder. So besides the totally normal conga line, what else happened that night that may have gotten your Spidey-sense going?
ROB CESTERNINO | It was a really late night. I was surprised just how late we were staying up, where I kind of thought that we would be heading to bed pretty soon after the roundtable. I watched the TV show. I feel like after the roundtable, it's like two minutes and then they go to bed, and I felt like this was a night that just seemed to be endless. And this is right around the time in the season when they do a murder in plain sight. The light bulb just went off. I'm like, hold on, this could be one of those nights where the traitors are up to something.

TVLINE | Now, it was Mama Kelce who put you on the shortlist.
What the hell, Donna?!

TVLINE | What were your interactions with her like in the castle and why do you think she targeted you for murder?
Nick, I had a really good relationship with Donna in the castle. She was in my car when we first went to the castle, and me and Lisa and Monét, we said, "Hey, let's check back in every so often." I wanted to make sure that I helped her in the challenges. Donna is in her 70s, and so I really felt like I was somebody who had her back in the castle. You saw we had a nice conversation that night after Porsha had gotten banished where I told her I wanted to be supportive towards her. I think for Donna, one, she might have been in over her head a little bit as the secret traitor, bless her heart. And then I also think that what she was trying to do... I voted for Michael Rapaport. I think she was trying to, even though she was close with Michael in the house, I think she was trying to, as a desperate maneuver, throw Michael under the bus and put a couple of people on that shortlist that voted for Michael to be able to then maybe frame Michael Rapaport for my murder, because, "Oh, Rob voted for Michael Rapaport. Obviously, he must have killed Rob." 

TVLINE | At the time of your murder, who did you think was a traitor?
So I will say that erroneously, I thought Yam Yam was a traitor. I will say that I also took some solace in the fact that I thought Yam Yam was a traitor because I felt that if there was somebody from CBS reality, I thought that they would be keeping me safe, because I thought that they would want to try to keep our numbers together. So, I was surprised to 1) see that he wasn't a traitor, but I also was doubly surprised that there were no people from the CBS reality shows that were traitors.

TVLINE | Were you disappointed that you weren't selected as a traitor instead?
I didn't want to be a traitor. I think that maybe you could go back and say that that was the biggest mistake that I made, but I thought that after Boston Rob had done such a great job as a traitor in Season 3, I felt like to come back into the game and then to be trying to play as a traitor, I was worried that people were gonna see through it. And frankly, I was much more worried that I would be banished in the game, more so than I ever thought I would be murdered, because I thought I would show up and people would say, "Oh, he's from 'Survivor,'" and they would remember Boston Rob last season and say, "You know what? One of the gamers is definitely gonna be a traitor, let's just go for him." And I really thought I would be having to fight for my life at the first couple of roundtables. So, I actually was, in a way, pleasantly surprised that nobody really seemed to have a lot of suspicion about me, and maybe I did too good of a job of projecting that I was a faithful. And so, I don't know if I would be a good traitor because I'm not the best liar. I think that I'm able to really read situations, and I think I have good relationships with people, but I don't know if I'm the type of person that would be one of these iconic traders. I didn't want to be a bad traitor.

TVLINE | How surprised were you that not one, but two Housewives were chosen as traitors?
I certainly thought one of the Housewives was a traitor, and Michael Rapaport did kind of eat with that, that one of the Housewives was going to be a traitor. I had no suspicion that two of the Housewives were going to be traitors, and I do think for the long-term health of the show, I think that they made a good decision in terms of mixing it up, where people can't [figure] it out as much. I just wish that they might have tried that on a different season!

TVLINE | You've built an extremely successful podcasting empire where you break down strategy across a variety of reality shows. Did you feel any sort of pressure to win or perform well because of that?
On "The Traitors," there's so much variance in how it works out. There are people who are great at the game who go home early. There are people who are not that good at the game who win the show, and so, it's not necessarily a show where it always logics out of who's going to do well. Obviously I wanted to do well and show people that I still could do this type of thing after all this time, but I really just felt like this opportunity, as opposed to maybe even "Survivor," I felt like this was all house money. To me, if I went on "Survivor" and I flopped, I think that people would be a little bit more critical in terms of like, "Why should we listen to him? Are we sure that this guy knows what he's talking about?" And I just felt like with this opportunity, I didn't feel like I was carrying that baggage.

TVLINE | We've seen so many reality TV competition series come and go, but why do you think "The Traitors" has resonated with people so deeply?
I think "Traitors" does so many things right, and I think one of them is that each of these different franchises that they pull from brings in the fans from those other shows. I've been exposed to fans who don't really know anything about the CBS shows, and they watch it for the Housewives, and they're really looking at it from a Housewives perspective. Obviously, in the "RHAP" world, we're looking at it from the perspective of the "Survivor" and "Big Brother" people, but everyone brings in their own fan base, so you have this great pool of support. But the show I think tonally does so many things right where it's camp, but there's fashion, and then there's also strategy, and there's also a lot of conflict that happens. I think in modern-day "Survivor," I think to its credit, wants to be a show that is about, "Oh, let's take out the people who are the best players and not have it be about personal conflict as much." Whereas I think that "The Traitors" and the way that the roundtable is sometimes like a car crash, and the way that that conflict really has to get brought to the surface, I think it gets back to the roots of reality TV in a way that some of the other shows have tried to shy away from.

TVLINE | You're more than well-versed in the mechanics of these things, but was there anything that surprised you about your "Traitors" experience, either from a production or player's perspective?
It was surprising to me just how fast-paced it goes, where you're there and then very quickly there are traitors that are picked, and very quickly you're going to roundtables and people are getting murdered, and it's like, "Wait, already?" Whereas in "Survivor," you could go a while where, if you don't go to that first Tribal Council, it might be a week before you have to ultimately start making those types of decisions. And so, I do think in "Survivor," you have more of an opportunity, even though it's completely immersive, you have a little bit more of an opportunity to get your feet under you.

TVLINE | The "RHAP" fans, the "Survivor" fans... everyone was so psyched to see you back on our TV screens. You were ultimately taken from us far too soon, but are there any other shows out there that you'd consider competing on?
Listen, I loved getting to go back and be a participant in a reality TV show. I just think that there's a lot of other shows out there that the physicality is just a little disqualifying for me at this particular station in my life. I loved doing "The Traitors." It was so much fun, and I think that at this particular point in my life, I think that this is the type of thing I feel like I would have to be doing if I was going to participate in a reality TV show again.

TVLINE | We're three episodes in. Who do you think is playing the best game, both from a traitors standpoint and a faithful standpoint?
I think all three of the traitors are doing really well, but I would say that the traitor that I think has been the most surprising has been Rob [Rausch]. I think that on paper, yes, of course, Candiace is going to be a great traitor. Of course, Lisa Rinna is going be a great traitor, but I think that Rob, there was a lot of variance of how it could go. He could've been way too much of a loose cannon. He's actually been extremely collected and measured as a traitor so far, so I think that the traitors are doing a really great job.

And I'll give some credit to Natalie, who I think is somebody we saw do a really good job in the challenges and has a really great social game. I think everybody loved Natalie. From my vantage point while I was there, she's very easy to get along with. Monét is another person that everybody felt extremely close with. Monét, and certainly Tiffany, is somebody who I just bonded with so well on a strategic level.

TVLINE | Natalie was quite hilarious with her whole, "Pick it the f—k up!", while pushing the cart!
Oh, Nick, I am so glad they did not show Natalie reaming me out in the boat for how bad I was rowing. Thank you to the editors of "The Traitors" for not showing me being embarrassed for getting yelled at for rowing the boat poorly, and I appreciate that. And Natalie, I promise I will row the boat better next time!